Patek Philippe – normalt eller litt galskap?

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Re: POLL: FPJ Bleu vs Patek 5711


This thread is downright ridiculous in my opinion as I am entitled to it!!

Comparing something as elegant and supreme as a Journe with something like a simple Patek 5711 is just a joke! As Tony mentioned, also unfair!

First, Let's breakdown the battle. You have one beater watch and you are looking for another that you could wear everyday...duuuh!!! It should be far more versatile than the CB! Sorry, but this thread is just odd. Honestly, the CB is well into the dress category and is in no way a sport watch that could potentially take a beating every now and then. No, it is not as water resistant and it does not need to be. Cutting this rant short, the title should be rephrased. It is not about which is a better watch, it is about which watch is more practical if you had only one and wanted to wear it with scratches all over and not give a s**t.

In terms of the watches themselves. I for one find the 5711 to be comfortable with the bracelet but I would never ever ever buy one. I think the dumbest thing in the world is to spend 26k on a stainless steel Patek with the simplest base caliber they have (assembly line constructed). Your only reason would be cause of resale but even then...watches are not meant to be investments!! Seriously people!! Be real, you are not buying the watch cause you think it is so pretty, you are buying it cause of the name, prestige and value retention. If you really knew your stuff, you would quickly realize how much crap is in that 5711. The movement finishing is downright disappointing. Nothing spectacular and it's the same movement used on the much cheaper Aquanaut. Quite frankly, the biggest rip-off Patek offers and it's success is largely based on marketing schemes and the vast majority who just want a nice Patek and care little about details.

Now the Bleu...

Not the most strict dress watch in my opinion but truly a work of art. Let's start with the brand. F.P. Journe is the only brand today that is founded, run and owned by the master watchmaker and the only one located in Geneva! They make 95% of all their movements in the basement of the factory and own their own dial makers and case manufacturers! EVERYTHING is designed by Mr. Journe, who is a genius, A to Z from buckles to movement. He never takes the short route and is the only one to start a design by sketching the dial first! Far more difficult and Patek never dreams of it!

Most brands, including Patek, have clearly distinguishable differences in level of work between their less expensive pieces and their most. For example, a 5711 finishing is of far less perfection than on a Patek minute repeater. Basically, you get what you pay for and whereas a 5711 is put together in assembly...the same is not the case for Patek repeaters.

However, knowing this to be the norm in the industry, Journe did not want the same concept to enter his brand and insted wanted his "least expensive" watch to be just as well made as his 650,000 CHF Sonnerie. The watch HAD TO speak for itself. In turn, the movement is made of 18K rose gold entirely! Why? Because charging 20k for a brass movement is unfair to Mr. Journe. The movement is pretty much the same as in the CS but the baseplate was completely changed to accomodate the absent power reserve. Again, Mr. Journe does not allow shortcuts and leaving a useless space for unused power reserve is stupid!
Further, each movement is the responsibility of one watchmaker A to Z which makes each movement unique. Ask me, I own and played with quite a few Journe pieces and each one has its own touch because each movement was assembled with its own personal technique. The movement is not a typical A to Z manual wind. It is artistic and has barrels mounted in parallel to provide more stable energy. The gear train is hidden beneath the dial to give the illusion that the balance wheel is beating with no connection to the barrels, wowing the owner with every stare!

The case is made from one of the most difficult metals to work with! In fact, this is the only watch made entirely of tantalum, including case, crown, buckle and tongue. The tantalum case takes Journe 5x longer to make than platinum. It needs 73 different tooling operations to make and cannot be polished. Instead it has to be sanded down to achieve that shine which takes a really long time. The crown has a hand made knurling effect. The case material is perfectly suited to bring out and match the dial. Again, no shortcuts!

The dial, is the only dial of its kind to ever exist in the world of horology! Ask any Bleu owner and they will tell you...this thing has a mind of its own from ranging shades of Bleu to shadows of the numerals seen within the dial itself! Polished to a mirror finish, it then has extremely thin layers of blue paint applied till correct tone is achieved. The layers are microns thin! Then, 7 layers of lacquer applied and the most difficult part is ensuring everything is percect between those 7 layers. Each error is magnified because of the mirror finish and in turn, the dial has a 60% fail rate when it meets quality control...reduced from 90% at first! After, the numerals are printed 6 times to achieve the perfect depth that fits with Mr. Journe's high standards!

Bottom line, i wonder what Patek would ask if they came up with this. 60k?? With Mr. Journe, this watch is clear proof that every Journe watch is perfect no matter the price. Invenit et Fecit is the motto and rightfully so! The Bleu is physical evidence that each piece is a work of art and nothing less will be offered to those wishing to taste the mastery of Journe! In fact, even with my two other complicated Journe's...this would be the last to go if i ever had to.

Tell me something more worthy about that 5711 besides the name, history and value retention...please go ahead....i beg you!
Klikk for å utvide...

Tenk hvis Parmigiani hadde vært med i sammenlikningen. Hvilken hadde gått seirende ut da?
 
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Tanken har slått meg også. FPJ OG PF. To innovative urmakere, som riktignok tenker litt forskjellig mtp verk og produksjonsprosess. Men når det kommer til finish. Hvordan opplever du dette, du som har hatt direktekontakt med begge deler @Havvo?
 
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Entropy skrev:
Tanken har slått meg også. FPJ OG PF. To innovative urmakere, som riktignok tenker litt forskjellig mtp verk og produksjonsprosess. Men når det kommer til finish. Hvordan opplever du dette, du som har hatt direktekontakt med begge deler @Havvo?
Klikk for å utvide...

Oi oi.
Her forventer jeg et kontroversielt og fullstendig uventet svar...not...;)
 
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Begge merkene sliter vel litt med å finne seg selv - jeg regner med at de har en mer helhetlig filosofi om en ti års tid. Det vil bli spennende.
 
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Jeg mener det florerte rykter om et samarbeid mellom FP og PF i 2014 engang. Det kom opp en arbeidstittel: PFFPFFS (ParmigianiFleurier+Francis-PaulForFucksSake mener jeg det stod for) Man skulle visst kombinere en del patenter hos vaucher med den gale pennen til Francis. Ser vi en Chronometre Blood kansje? Parmigiani elsker jo rødt.

$_35.JPG
 
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Veldig bra finish på begge to. Journe oppleves en god del mer eksklusiv. På grunn av tyngden på kassen samt at man ser inn på roségull.

Av alle klokker jeg har hatt er det disse to pluss Glashutte seventies som har utmerket seg spesielt i opplevd kvalitet eller finish hvis man kan kalle det det.

Men som nevnt over, så koker det til syvende og sist ned til marketing ja. FPJ og Vitapro er spesielt dyktige
 
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Forresten @Edzilla . Jeg hadde tenkt å plukke med meg en ny rem i London neste helg. Ringte williams&son i dag. Tror jeg dropper den gitt. Når jeg hørte prisen.
 
Angrer fortsatt på at jeg ikke kjøpte meg en Nautilus på begynnelsen av 90-tallet, da jeg hadde muligheten. Ble 2 Rolex i stedet gitt! Som så mange andre her sier, bil, ur og eksempelvis klær: man betaler for både produksjonsmåte (kanskje) og merkenavn.

Da jeg kjøpte min første Rolex i 1993 var det KUN det merket jeg var interessert i. Gikk glatt forbi alt annet og rett ned trappa hos Bjerke. Ble 17500 kroner fattigere, men stolt som en hane :) Samme modell i dag (16234) koster vel, vel, jeg føler ikke lenger med på pris på Rolex... Over 20 år senere, og med mer kunnskap om både merker og hvordan de lages, synes jeg det er greit med merker som PP of FPJ. De koster imidlertid for mye til at jeg kan forsvare et kjøp nå. Har fått tafse på en tidligere kollegas Calatrava, og det urverket er jo bare helt rått :D At eks. Breitling nå skal ha nesten 40000,- for et "modifisert" ETA 2824 er verre, spør du meg.

Så, som ts sier, slike ur er selvfølgelig ikke noe bedre til å vise tid enn en Casio eller Breitling, men gleden av å eie dem er stor for en med interesse for kvalitetsur og historikken bak. Om det er normalt å ha et (eller flere) må man selv avgjøre. Økonomi og vlije til prioritering spiller inn - samme som for bilentusiaster. Noen vil jo ha akurat den BMW'en, og nøyer seg ikke med 316.
Selv har jeg gjennom årene kjøpt og eid alt fra Casio og Swatch til Corum, IWC, Cartier og Rolex, og er formøyd med å ha "litt av hvert" i samlinga etter over 20 års interesse for armbåndsur.
 
Patek er ut.

FPJ er "in" - og i ferd med å bli det nye Rolex. Dvs, eierne av FPJ mener FPJ er best - uansett. :D I gamle dager hadde man Rolex-fanboys. De finnes ikke i like stor grad lenger - men FPJ-fanboys...

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* ned i tilfluktsrommet *
 
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